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"We talk:" Oxford counselor testifies James Crumbley referenced journal, talks with son during meeting
Shawn Hopkins, a counselor at Oxford High School, testified during James Crumbley's trial that the father mentioned during their parent meeting that their son had people to talk to and knew of his journal.
The third day of the trial for James Crumbley, the father of the Oxford school shooter, brought testimony from familiar faces - two school authorities.
Counselor Shawn Hopkins and dean of students Nicholas Ejak testified again about the meeting with the student’s parents that took place the morning of the shooting. They both also offered testimony in Jennifer Crumbley’s trial.
The insight gives the jury one of the best perspectives into the minds of the people trained to spot issues in students or those associated closest with the shooter. Both offered testimony that included a moment where James Crumbley "showed concern" for his son.
James Crumbley in court during his trial on March 11, 2024
Counselor's meetings with the student
Hopkins was the sixth witness called by the Oakland County Prosecutor since the trial started last week. He was the first to take the stand on Monday morning.
He testified that he first spoke with the shooter in the spring of 2021 – but that was about the upcoming school year. His first meeting with the shooter about behavioral concerns wouldn't come until the fall of that same school year.
On Sept. 8, 2021, Hopkins testified he had his first encounter with the shooter when he was asked to review some work that he had turned in. In the homework, the shooter said ‘he feels terrible and that his family is a mistake.’
However, when Hopkins talked to him, he learned from the teacher that the student said it was a joke.
"What I did was (I) had a conversation with the teacher to gain a little more context of what was meant by the email. And then the teacher filled me in that the student was actually joking with others in the class and that it was not at the level of concern that she had believed when she sent the email," he said.
Two months later, he would have another conversation after being messaged by the same teacher. On Nov. 8, 2021, the teacher said the teen was "having a rough time." Hopkins said he made contact with him in the hallway and reiterated that he could talk to him.
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James Crumbley trial: Oxford counselor testifies about parent meeting
Oxford High School counselor Shawn Hopkins testifies about calling in the shooter's parents and meeting with them after disturbing images and words were drawn by the shooter on a homework assignment.
Then, on Nov. 29, the day before the shooting, he spoke with the shooter again – this time about the bullets the shooter was looking up in class that day. He said they discussed ‘school-appropriate’ behavior and that the ammo search during school hours did not meet that expectation. The following day started with the shooter being called back to Hopkins office – this time for the math assignment covered with graphic drawings.
Hopkins testified the words and images on the worksheet concerned him that the student might be thinking about hurting himself, so he got the parents involved.
READ MORE: James Crumbley Trial: More witnesses to take the stand in Oxford High School shooting case
School meeting with parents
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James Crumbley trial: Dean of students says dad 'expressed concern' during parent meeting
The Oxford High School Dean of Students testified during James Crumbley's trial that the father 'expressed concern' during the parent meeting that happened with their son the morning of the shooting.
Hopkins testified that he called the parents and both showed up, and during the meeting Hopkins expressed his wish for them to seek help for their son, "as soon as possible, today if possible." They said they couldn’t accomplish it that day because they said they had to go back to work.
Hopkins said he gave them a multi-sheet list of counseling resources in the area and said during cross-examination that he didn’t have a reason to believe that the Crumbleys wouldn’t take action within a 48-hour timeline that Hopkins had set before he said he would follow up with them.
It was during that meeting that Hopkins recalled James Crumbley going over the math assignment that his son doodled on.
"Mr. Crumbley’s statement, to my recollection, was, ‘You have your counselor; you have your journal; we talk,’" Hopkins testified.
Nicholas Ejak, the dean of students who was also present at that meeting and testified on Monday, said something similar.
"He expressed concern for his son, that he reminded his son that he could always speak to him about stuff and that he had a journal that he could write stuff in," Ejak said.
Hopkins testified that, before the student's parents arrived, the student had expressed to him sadness and seemed "appropriately sad" over several things that had happened recently in his life, such as the death of a family member, a friend that had moved, virtual school, and the death of their dog.
All of those were signs of a student struggling emotionally - not grounds for discipline.
Ejak, the individual in charge of student discipline, testified that mental health worries superseded any concern for discipline, even though some of the drawings and phrases he had doodled that spurred the meeting weren't appropriate. Instead, the student said he wanted to go back to class.
"I knew a fraction of what we know now," Ejak said.
While watching footage of the shooting later in the day, he recalled thinking while on the phone with police that the Crumbleys' son was involved.