Jennifer Crumbley's trial on Day 4 included defendant talking to police, insight from dean of students

PONTIAC, Mich. (FOX 2) - Evidence presented during Jennifer Crumbley's trial on Day 4 went over testimony from the Oxford High School dean of students, insight from police detectives, and the defendant's conversation with a sergeant after the shooting. 

For a recap of the day, tap here.

4:30 p.m. - Judge dismisses jury until 8:30 a.m. Wednesday

4:08 p.m. - Jury returns with next witness called

Robert Kotelef works with the Oakland County Sheriff's office as forensic laboratory team leader. He's spent 17 years in the position. 

He walked the jury through the shooter's path, as well as evidence markers showing the direction that bullets were fired. Kotelef spent hours at the school documenting the shooting that happened earlier in the day. 

He testified the firearm was shot 32 times within the high school. 

The defense had no cross-examination to provide. 

3:52 p.m. - Witness concludes testimony after video

The prosecution finished cross-examination of the sergeant after playing a video of him conversing with Jennifer Crumbley. The defense also had no cross-examination. 

A short break was called before prosecutors planned to call an individual from the crime lab. 

2:50 p.m. - Prosecution calls next witness + short break

Sergeant Matthew Peschke has been employed with the Oakland County Sheriff's Office for 20 years. He works as a detective sergeant with the special investigations unit. He was among those that responded to the shooter's home and had orders to preserve it for evidence as well as clear it of any people. 

He said he observed a man walking near an awning, then spotted a female coming out onto the porch, who he identified as Jennifer Crumbley.

The prosecution then played the entire video of the conversation between Crumbley and Peschke. 

During her conversation with the detective, she said she had no idea what had happened. 

"He's never done anything wrong. He's a good kid. This is f*cked up. My son just ruined his life. I'm never going to see him again," she said. 

She also told the officer about the gun that was purchased the week before and about where it was locked at the time. She also said the ammo was kept separately from the safe where the SigSauer was kept. Crumbley also mentioned her meeting in the counselor's office upon the discovery of disturbing drawings being found.

She confirmed her husband had traveled home after learning of the shooting and discovered a gun was missing from the safe. It was later found on the bed of the master bedroom.  

Video from the back of the cruiser also shows Crumbley on her phone a lot. 

2:12 p.m. - Defense cross-examines witness

The defense started her questions of Det. Stoyek by going over the scene he arrived at where Jennifer Crumbley was being taken out of her home. He testified multiple officers had their guns drawn at the time.

He also testified he found the gun safe that housed the SigSauer was empty and on the bed inside the master bedroom. The only other guns found in the house were pellet and BB guns. 

The prosecution resumed cross-examination of the witness by asking why detectives approached the house with guns drawn. He testified they didn't know what they were going to find at the home, they had "just come from the scene of a shooting."

1:50 p.m. - Open gun safe in master bedroom

Another image taken by detectives included one revealing an open gun safe with an empty box of 9mm ammunition. 

Another image entered into evidence taken during Det. Adam Stoyek's investigation of the home found a separate gun safe with two guns inside.

1:35 p.m.- Prosecution calls next witness

Detective Adam Stoyek was called to the stand next. He works out of the Pontiac substation and investigates crime reports that come in on a daily basis. 

After being called to the school and clearing out classrooms, he was redirected to the residence of James and Jennifer Crumbley. The school shooter had been taken into custody at that time. He testified he wasn't sure what he was going to find at the home. 

The home at 112 E Street, is "fairly small", Stoyek testified. Their visit was intended more as a preservation of evidence decision because a search warrant was likely coming next for the address. 

Several images shown during the trial include photographs of the shooter's bedroom inside the Crumbley household. They include targets that had been used. 

1:32 p.m. - Prosecution resumes cross-examination

1:18 p.m. - Defense starts cross-examination

Holland told the defense that she knows Jennifer Crumbley to be a sarcastic individual and that some of the things she could be taken humorously. 

1:05 p.m. - Jury returns from lunch + Witness takes stand

Amanda Holland was a coworker of Jennifer Crumbley's back when the two worked at the same firm. 

Holland testified that Crumbley and the shooter had gotten into a fight the night before and that her son had gotten locked out of the house. She was also near Jennifer when the defendant learned of an active shooter at the school.

12:08 p.m. - Witness dismissed + Jury breaks for lunch

11:59 a.m. - Defense starts cross-examination

The defense mentioned to the judge she had quite a bit of cross-examination for the next witness. 

11:30 a.m. - Prosecution calls next witness

Andrew Smith works for a real estate company and is an attorney. His primary work was running the operations of a real estate portfolio with some 700 employees. Jennifer Crumbley was the marketing director for the company.

The first two exhibits were text threads between Smith and Crumbley. Smith noted the texts from Crumbley's phone had been deleted. They included an image of a math assignment the shooter had drawn, as well as a text reading "The gun is gone and so are the bullets."

Smith also said it would have been fine if Crumbley had to take her son to work or if she had to leave. Crumbley had told Smith she had to get her son counseling. 

Around 1 p.m. on Nov. 30, he heard yelling or screaming come from down the hall. He saw her racing down the hall. "I recalled her saying there was an active shooter at her child's school," he said. Then he got a text message on his thread about a gun being gone from her home. 

He later got a phone call from Crumbley, who had expressed concern about the shooting at Oxford High School. He said he heard sirens in the background. 

Smith later said he was a bit confused by Crumbley's text message asking him not to judge her. She said "I need my job." He also said her employment was terminated by the company a short time later. 

11:25 a.m. - Prosecution resumes cross-examination

Like his questioning of Shawn Hopkins, Assistant Prosecutor Marc Keast went through many of the facts the shooter's mother was aware of her son, including purchasing him a firearm, his hallucinations, and that they took him to a shooting range days earlier. 

Ejak was then sent home. 

10:50 a.m. - Defense starts cross-examination

When the defense asked Ejak about the shooter's response to him holding his backpack, he testified "he didn't appear to even care that I was holding his backpack." For context, the weapon used in the shooting was in Jennifer Crumbley's son's backpack. 

Ejak also said there was no discipline that was required after the disturbing images and the moment when the shooter was seen looking up bullets.  

The defense also asked Ejak if he was aware of anyone notifying Jennifer Crumbley about the violent images and drawings. He responded he wasn't aware of any other communication besides the meeting the Crumbley parents had with the counselor where they discussed the math worksheet. 

Ejak characterized the meeting with Jennifer Crumbley as one over mental health and not for discipline. He said there was no discipline warranted, and he was more concerned he got the help he needed.

Ejak was also aware the shooter had watched a violent video in class - though he didn't watch it. 

"Since it was described as ‘not like a live event,’ and due to the fact that most teenagers are watching violent movies, video games, prerecorded on YouTube, it doesn't rise to the occasion where you would be concerned," Ejak said.

The defense is asking more questions about how aware Ejak was of the shooter's activities and whether his knowledge would have risen to considering discipline for Jennifer Crumbley's son.

"He did not pose a threat to the school," he said.

Ejak also testified to the community's love of firearms due to its proximity to hunting areas. Firearms hunting season was still ongoing during this meeting in school. 

10:23 a.m. - Jury is seated + Prosecution calls witness

The first witness called Tuesday was Nicholas Ejak, who was the dean of students at Oxford High School during the shooting.

Ejak worked in the district for only a few months before Nov. 29. The first exhibit shown during Ejak's testimony was an email from an English teacher about a student looking up bullets in her class. Here's what it said: 

• "Good morning. I had a student during the first hour today, (shooter's name), who was on his phone looking at different bullets at the end of the first hour today, as I was walking around the room, passing out their essays. I didn't get a chance to investigate it a bit further since it was the end of the hour. Now that he's on my radar, I'm also noticing that some of his previous work that he's completed from earlier in the year leans a bit toward the violent side I could bring down these things later to later today during my fifth hour prep if you would like them."

The next day , another teacher mentioned drawings the same student had made on a math assignment. They included a drawing of a gun and disturbing words. 

After reviewing the worksheet, Ejak walked down to the counselor's office and notified Shawn Hopkins to ask him to speak with him. Hopkins went and retrieved the shooter from class and had a meeting with him. Ejak was present for the meeting. 

After sitting in during the call between the shooter, Hopkins, and Jennifer Crumbley, Ejak retrieved the shooter's backpack from his classroom and brought it the office. His understanding was they would be getting the shooter mental help. 

MORE: Watch Counselor Shawn Hopkins' testimony here

It wasn't the first time that Ejak had sat in on a meeting that included attempting to connect a student with mental health services and coordinating with his parents. 

Ejak mentioned he didn't have any reasonable suspicion to search the shooter's backpack. Students typically show signs of nervousness when officials handle their belongings when something is inside a backpack that shouldn't be. 

He also mentioned Jennifer Crumbley's response to asking to get the shooter help that day as "odd" because she said they had to go back to work. 

Because the shooter would be at home alone

The trial so far

The videos shown in court were the first police interviews of the shooter after he killed four students and the first meeting with the Crumbley parents.

Prosecutors briefly questioned Det. Sgt. Joe Brian of the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office, who conducted the interview.  

Brian testified he’s had to tell parents before of crimes that children are suspected of committing, and that a common reaction is for parents to cry, be in disbelief, and ask, "Why?" – all of which were seen in reactions from the Crumbleys. 

Other witnesses who testified Monday included Kira Pennock, the owner of the farm where the Crumbleys boarded their horses, and Shawn Hopkins, the school counselor who called the parents to the school the morning of the shooting.

Part of the prosecution's case is alleging that Crumbley cared more for her horses than her son.

Pennock testified that Crumbley didn’t talk much about her son, and that Pennock had only ever met Crumbley’s son maybe once or twice.

Pennock testified she remembered Crumbley making a comment once that her son was "weird" and how she wished he did "normal kid things." Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald then asked if she ever heard Jennifer talk positively about her son.

"There was nothing truly positive when she was talking about him," Pennock testified. "There were quite a few times that she had voiced that he was an ‘oopsie baby.’" 

Hopkins said he was concerned about the student being left alone, so he kept the student in his office while he got ahold of the parents and they drove to the school.

Hopkins testified that his expectation for the meeting was to set a plan with the parents to get help for their son, and his hope was that they’d take him home that day and seek help from a list of therapists and counselors that was provided. Neither was accomplished.

Hopkins testified that he was taken aback and confused at the response from the parents. He said Jennifer Crumbley stated that it was "not possible" to get her son help that day because they had to return to work.

Jennifer Crumbley TrialOakland County